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Radwhacker
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Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 2047
Location: Las Vegas
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 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling! |
 #1 |
You guys have gone off the deep end.
Adios.
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"A day without fun is a day that eats s***." HST |
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Spark
3 thumbs up
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 1872
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
#2 |
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'Spark
H4/OBS - WW U2-160 & Falcon 2 195
P3, Skywalk Chili L |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
#3 |
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings.
-Helen Keller
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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noman3
1 thumbs up
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 4621
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling! |
#4 |
| Radwhacker wrote: |
You guys have gone off the deep end.
Adios. |
i think i smell what your stepin in |
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Wagner24314
1 thumbs up
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 2045
Location: Yankton SD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
#5 |
did i miss something
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"Cocky Bastard". Never land on your face it hurts
H3 AT, PL,FL
Sport 2 brothers wing, LaMouette Topless 1 flys awsome and Airborne C4 13.5 |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1842
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
| sg wrote: |
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings.
-Helen Keller
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Great quote SG. That says a lot. Thanks.
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders • Join the Torrey Hawks • Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:14 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
When the going gets tough, the tough get going, . . . and a few just wander off. 
_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C |
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JDyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 703
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:55 am Post subject: |
#8 |
Aww C'mon Rad, Let the 10 loud mouths b**** and cry about it till they get tired and file back in with the rest of the sheep. Everyone can see the issues but the vocal minority are just doing what they do best instead of stepping up and actually doing something. If nobody jumps out as their leader they will simmer down and we will go back to the nice, friendly .Org that we once had with only a couple flare ups a week.
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-Jason
WW Sport2 155
rated?, we don't need no stinking ratings!! |
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sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: |
#9 |
| JDyer wrote: |
| AEveryone can see the issues but the vocal minority are just doing what they do best instead of stepping up and actually doing something. I. |
Sorry, but this isnt very accurate. The most powerful RD in the country was recently unseated. People clearly did something, and they were not the minority.
I guess ill never understand why people have to start a thread to say bye, because they kept clicking on threads they dont want to read.
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
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gtpowell
2 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
Location: High Above So. California
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: |
#10 |
| sg wrote: |
Sorry, but this isnt very accurate. The most powerful RD in the country was recently unseated. People clearly did something, and they were not the minority.
I guess ill never understand why people have to start a thread to say bye, because they kept clicking on threads they dont want to read. |
With all do respect SG, at the moment Bob is fighting an up-hill battle. And with all the trash talking going on in these forums, you all are not making it any easier for him. If you do not believe me, re-read Forbes post. Even though you initiated the thread, Bob received full blame for the flaming and anti-USHPA attitude expresses in the thread. Forbes is not the only BOD that attaches Bob to all ill-feelings expressed here on the .org and within R-3 toward the USHPA.
An RD acquires his/her authority/power from the USHPA not from the number of pilot votes obtained to gain office. Not until Bob has paid his dues as an RD, demonstrated an attitude of respect for the USHPA and its BOD, and finally, gained the respect of the greater number of RDs around the country, will he ever have any power/authority. "Power is assigned, not assumed."
At the moment, Brad has accomplished the above through years of service, which is why the EC has chosen him to represent the USHPA. And, why the BOD and the EC listen to and accept as truthful, whatever stories Brad and/or the unseated Jebb tells to the BOD, wright or wrong as they may be. Not until Bob obtains the respect of the BOD, will the BOD provide Bob with any authority/power to accomplish anything.
This is the point Rad is trying to get across. You all need to work on damage control at the moment and not continue to slam those that assign power. Rather than constantly slamming the USHPA, start giving them credit through written letters or emails for what they have accomplished reflecting a positive and supportive attitude. (if you know of none, than make something up) And, at the same time, incorporate positive changes that could be addressed locally along with the request for Bob to be assigned to these issues. Once Bob has demonstrated his desire to work within the USHPA RD guidelines, successfully accomplished USHPA supported issues, and demonstrated an ability to improve and unite the region, will he begin to acquire the respect he requires to obtain any authority and/or power.
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Gary
Rating, - H3
WW Sport2-175
USHGA Since 1981 |
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bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1842
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: |
#11 |
| gtpowell wrote: |
| With all do respect SG, at the moment Bob is fighting an up-hill battle. |
Hi Gary and SG,
The truth is that we've all been fighting an uphill battle for over 2 years now. We're still not at the top of the hill, but we can see the summit from here.
Remember that when we started this:
1. The Soaring Council hadn't met in years. Jebb had ignored it to the point where it wasn't even functioning.
2. There was no Torrey Hawks Hang Gliding club (now numbering 155 pilots), and all representation was through the SDHGPA (mostly a pro-Jebb PG club of his former students).
3. There was no Torrey Pines City Park Advisory Board, and even if this would have happened anyway (by forces outside of our efforts), then it would not have contained the Hawks - All representation would have come through the SDHGPA.
4. David Jebb was Regional Director, and it looked like he was unbeatable.
5. David Jebb was running Torrey and ignoring the wishes of the pilots.
6. David Beardslee had been kicked out of Torrey for life.
So, while I agree that it's been uphill, we've been taking ground in that direction. Right now we're stalled at the Soaring Council door, and that's because our own USHPA representative has voted against us. But that's what we're working on next, and I think the trend is in our favor.
Thanks for writing.
Bob Kuczewski
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders • Join the Torrey Hawks • Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
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knumbknuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 5004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
#12 |
| sg wrote: |
| I guess ill never understand why people have to start a thread to say bye, because they kept clicking on threads they dont want to read. |
Rad's a great guy and I'm bummed to see him go, but not bummed enough to stop fighting for fairness at Torrey.
The forecast is on for Sunday. It'd be a perfect day to grab my wing, go down for a couple of flights with the family and a picnic basket, but wait... I'm hang 3.
<-----Fuct.
I'm supposed to sit down and take not being able to fly at the site closest to my home (now that Elsinore has no LZs) because if I discuss options on a message board it will upset people who only go to the message board for happy things and can't avoid the unhappy things?
It don't add up.
Have good times in the air, Rad. I hope you're not pissed at me personally and that we can still crack tubes (beer, not wings) at Elsinore or in Vegas. There's always a brat waiting for you at Crestline. |
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Wingspan34
2 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 5652
Location: Central NY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:58 am Post subject: |
#13 |
Boy, this got to the basement quick! 
_________________
WW 141 Fusion SP
Master rated, First flight - May 1975
FL, PL, PA, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TURB, X-C |
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gtpowell
2 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
Location: High Above So. California
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:48 am Post subject: |
#14 |
| knumbknuts wrote: |
I'm supposed to sit down and take not being able to fly at the site closest to my home (now that Elsinore has no LZs) because if I discuss options on a message board it will upset people who only go to the message board for happy things and can't avoid the unhappy things?
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KK, I don't think Rad is saying not to fight the fight, I believe he is saying that the trash talk and ill feeling is feeding upon itself and not doing anything to resolve the situation. We all want fairness at Torrey, and fairness in our representation on the Soaring Counsel. And, a feeding frenzy on HG.org is not going to resolve the situation, but will instead, surely contribute to the BOD's dislike for this whole situation. I'm in SD almost every week now and every week i go to Torrey and watch in disgust knowing I am not able to fly.
Contact the EC directly and diplomatically express your concerns. I have been in email contact over the past three days with one EC member that has been very open to hearing my views on the matter and is now looking into other matters related to possible mis-conduct and mis-representation of the USHPA by former/current RDs. If i am successful in my efforts, this EC member will have a more accurate understanding of some of the deceptive practices that have been going on to discredit Bob and the Torrey Hawks. Had I spent my time just slamming the USHPA on this forum instead, I would have never obtained this persons attention.
Also as I mentioned in another post earlier that went completely disregarded because everyone is so hell-bent on trashing the USHPA, all we need is for the Hawks to acquire their on insurance policy (plus write a set of regs and present it to the City counsel) and we will all be flying. But at the moment, some persons are more caught up in the feeding frenzy and would rather continue with such, than concentrate their time and efforts on circumventing the whole unfairness situation through other measures.
_________________
Gary
Rating, - H3
WW Sport2-175
USHGA Since 1981 |
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JDyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 703
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: |
#15 |
You know what blows my mind? How this can end up in the basement in a day and the s*** spewed about the whole front page of this site goes on for days and pages and continues, I smell censorship.....
"Oh my god did he say that?"
YES, YES I DID!
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-Jason
WW Sport2 155
rated?, we don't need no stinking ratings!! |
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knumbknuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 5004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: |
#16 |
For what it's worth, you can start a topic in the basement. I doubt Rad did, most people who go to the trouble to fire up a goodbye thread do it so many can see and I think that's what Rad did the last time he left.
But, at least give that option as much credence as some nefarious censorship plot.
I say that tongue in cheek because if I were SG and had created this site with my own money and even more valuable time, I'd be a lot less patient than he.
Gary, good luck with trying the path of patience with USHPA. Mark Forbes has shut the door pretty well on me in the past, so that, combined with the events of the last two weeks, keep from even listening to the voicemail that the head of USHPA left me the day after I called him. I am done with USHPA on this. |
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JDyer
3 thumbs up
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 703
Location: Alberta Canada
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: |
#17 |
| knumbknuts wrote: |
| For what it's worth, you can start a topic in the basement. But, at least give that option as much credence as some nefarious censorship plot. |
I know damn well that it didn't start out here. The only thing I'm unsure about is how many people hate rad's goodbye compared to how many people hate politics and airing dirty laundry. I'm going to guess that the latter has more bury votes.
| knumbknuts wrote: |
| I say that tongue in cheek because if I were SG and had created this site with my own money and even more valuable time, I'd be a lot less patient than he. |
Couldn't agree more, just think he's being hypocritical. I'm aiming to raise eyebrows. If he said "tough s*** I'm not going to let this get buried" then so be it, It's his site and he's entitled to fight whatever he wants to.
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-Jason
WW Sport2 155
rated?, we don't need no stinking ratings!! |
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gtpowell
2 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
Location: High Above So. California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
#18 |
wanahg is responsible for 2 tags to sink this
crvalley is responsible for 1 tag to sink this
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Gary
Rating, - H3
WW Sport2-175
USHGA Since 1981 |
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gtpowell
2 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
Location: High Above So. California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: |
#19 |
| knumbknuts wrote: |
Gary, good luck with trying the path of patience with USHPA. Mark Forbes has shut the door pretty well on me in the past, so that, combined with the events of the last two weeks, keep from even listening to the voicemail that the head of USHPA left me the day after I called him. I am done with USHPA on this. |
This is what I'm trying to convey, we do not need the USHPA to obtain the right to fly Torrey Pines. You and I have discussed this in the past and headed in this direction on our own, yet neither of us completed our efforts and for that reason, we are not flying at Torrey. The door has been left open by the city for any person/group possessing a $1 mil insurance liability policy which specifically names the city of San Diego as an insured party against liability related to actions by this party, will be allowed to fly Torrey Pines regardless of the leaseholders agreement with the city. As we know there are a few other minimal requirements in addition to acquiring final approval from the city.
I feel this is a time limited opportunity. I suspect since the cat is out of the bag regarding this potential to fly regardless of the leaseholder, when the new lease is written, the new leasee will make significant efforts to have this stipulation removed from the lease agreement. As you said, you are done with the USHPA, so deal with this in another manner. I highly encourage the Hawks to pursue an insurance policy ASAP and establish themselves at Torrey Pines prior to a new lease being granted. (The current management at Torrey has quietly stated the new lease agreement is already in the works) behind closed doors)) The more time spent demonstrating the Hawks are a significant and non-confrontational group of pilots, capable of flying at Torrey with out causing turmoil, harm and or injury to others, the greater leverage the Hawks will have when the new lease agreement is written/approved.
Bob K has already established a relationship with the city counsel and successfully gotten the city counsel to acknowledge the Torrey Hawks as a group/club that deserve recognition, so use this to the Hawks advantage and take it to the next step with an insurance policy and a right to fly at Torry Pines regardless of the Lessee's unfair regulations. Bob needs to re-address the city counsel with an underwriters proposed insurance policy, copy of flight regulations that are nothing more than a duplication of the regulations set forth on Flytorrey website, state the Hawks are in full agreement with current flight regulations in place at Torrey outside of the unjustified H4 requirement, provide argument/evidence to the contrary, and obtain the counsel's blessings. Now all Hawks members are flying at Torrey.
Stop battling with the USHPA to resolve the P0/H4 issue, they have no desire to see fairness at Torrey. Torrey is a large source of revenue to the USHPA, a source of revenue that requires zero investment from the USHPA, one they have no desire to see reduced by providing a means for HG pilots to potentially negatively impact the free revenue. Gain respect for the members of the Hawks through civility with the soaring counsel and the city, and utilize the doorways the city counsel has made available to fly at Torrey.
OK, I'm done with trying to get this point across.
_________________
Gary
Rating, - H3
WW Sport2-175
USHGA Since 1981 |
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