| View previous topic :: View next topic |
|
sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:50 am Post subject: USHPA - what is going on???? |
 #1 |
Sorry, but this deserves it own thread.
This is no longer a Torrey issue, this is a USHPA issue affecting all members.
The implications are far reaching.
Region 3 made it clear they wanted Bob K. representing them with a huge vote when he won the recent election.
Now USHPA is minimizing one RD's power, and choosing another local RD to represent them with NO member input or votes.
Does USHPA have the right to tell my representative he can't represent me???
USHPA stated: "You are not authorized to speak on behalf of USHPA for matters pertaining to Torrey Pines. " while not imposing the same rule on the other local RD Brad Hall 
(Full email is quoted below)
Quick background for people who havent followed this:
=========== SKIP if you are in the know ==================
Dave Jebb runs Torrey Pines Glider port in San Diego, CA and was one of the previous RD's.
Brad Hall is another local RD
Because of many reasons, including unfair access to Torrey for HG pilots, and a lack of due process, Bob K. was voted in as the new RD, unseating Dave Jebb.
The Torrey Pines Soaring Council over looks activities at Torrey Pines glider port and consists of several members representing the local HG,PG, RC plane and sailplane clubs that use Torrey.
Bob K. has been working to change the status quo at Torrey Pines (for the better in my opinion).
Brad has been attempting to block him every step, along with the "Torrey Crew" who has been in power a long time. (my opinion)
Torrey Pines allows PG students to learn to fly there, but requires an H4 rating to fly there.
Bob K started the Torrey Hawks hang gliding club, now the LARGEST san diego club in region 3.
The local hg/pg club known as the SDHGPA is represented on the Torrey Pines Soaring Council, (primarily a PG club, largely controlled by the Torrey PG insiders <-- my opinion) Note: there are multiple clubs representing single disciplines on the council already.
Brad Hall and others have made every attempt to block the largest HG club in region 3 from getting on the Torrey Pines Soaring Council.
Now USHPA has stepped in and is going directly against the members in region 3 who voted and won to get Bob K in as the new RD. Giving Brad Hall extra authority to represent them while denying the same for Bob K, who got more RD votes than any RD in the entire country
====== end background info =======================
Mark Forbes (USHPA) has constantly towed the line on this forum that "torrey is a local issue", that USHPA wont get involved.
So now the "hands off", "this is a local problem" org, suddenly is hands on, and is stripping one RD of his influence, while allowing another to keep his, directly going against the wishes of the region, based on the election.
Suddenly USHPA is telling one RD (the most popular in the country by vote) not to use their name, but another RD can?
USHPA is choosing one RD over another to represent it. Really? Did we vote for this or can USHPA just wave its hand and choose the less popular RD by vote count?? Did we not just make it clear with our votes who we want representing us in this region???
And where the hell do they get off passing judgment, and claiming Bob is being detrimental, that Bob has a conflict of interest? Really??? Do we really need to go down the EC list and talk about conflicts of interest?????????????
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE?
You call this representation?!?!? Did the USHPA members vote for this nonsense? Did the USHPA members not vote Bob in as RD giving him rights to his title??? Does USHPA get to decide who is a "REAL RD" and who can and cant use this title? Are our votes completely worthless? A sham? Nothing but a mere cover to make us feel like we actually have some kind of representation here?
I want an email list for the EC. We need to start writing some letters here.
WE voted Bob in. USHPA cant add and subtract power on a whim here like this.
USHPA cant play favorites like this. I suspect the typical back-door BS is going on here.
USHPA is denying us our elected representation.
USHPA, once again, is showing its true colors 
| Rich Hass (as Secretary of the USHPA Executive Committee) wrote: |
Bob:
This letter is in response to your repeated requests for USHPA support in helping get you a seat on the Soaring Council. After discussing this matter, the Executive Committee (“EC”) has determined that USHPA is well represented on the Soaring Council by Brad Hall. Further, we believe you have a direct conflict-of-interest in serving on the Soaring Council. That is, your continued interference with management of this site following your suspension is straining what has been a successful relationship between the flying community and the City of San Diego.
By this letter, USHPA affirms the following:
1. USHPA will not support your request for additional representation on the Soaring Council.
2. USHPA will look to Brad Hall as its sole representative on the Soaring Council and all matters pertaining to USHPA’s relationship with the Torrey Pines site.
3. You are not authorized to speak on behalf of USHPA for matters pertaining to Torrey Pines. Specifically, if you identify yourself in correspondence as a USHPA RD, you must state that you are speaking as an individual and you have no authorization to speak on behalf of USHPA.
Bob, USHPA is absolutely committed to supporting Torrey Pines as a flying site for both hang glider and paraglider members of our association. We believe your actions have been detrimental to the best interests of the flying community at-large. USHPA reserves all rights to take whatever action it deems is in the best interest in the USHPA pilot community at-large to protect this important flying site. At present, that includes taking steps to be certain you abide by the three requirements outlined above.
Thanks,
Rich Hass
Secretary, USHPA |
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
Last edited by sg on Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:38 am; edited 14 times in total |
|
|
|
Jason
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 7531
Location: Stapleton, Colorado
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:02 am Post subject: |
#2 |
Completely unacceptable, we voted Bob in because we had no one speaking for us
I don't even know how to respond to this other then saying. bite my ass USHGA, and Carry on Bob
_________________
TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
|
|
|
Jason
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 7531
Location: Stapleton, Colorado
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: |
#3 |
regarding point 2
who will they look to when we vote Brad out? 
_________________
TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
|
|
|
Windlord
3 thumbs up
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 4702
Location: Montana
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: |
#4 |
_________________
H-4 (1976) UP Saturn 147 & UP Axis 13
The Cloudbase Foundation
Learn to fly hang gliders (click here}
Torrey Hawks #208 |
|
|
|
Jason
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 7531
Location: Stapleton, Colorado
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: |
#5 |
also perhaps a civil rights lawsuit, they are attempting to silence an elected official from using his elected title without conditions on what he can say? WE elected him because we the people he was saying
_________________
TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
|
|
|
miguel
3 thumbs up
Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 587
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: |
#6 |
wtf
SG, thanks for posting |
|
|
|
Rebardan
3 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 196
Location: Crestline, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: |
#7 |
| looks like brad's hard at work too. |
|
|
|
peanuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 1880
Location: virginia
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: |
#8 |
| exactly how many peoples need to be voted out??? a noted virginian, thomas jefferson, once stated that a little revolution every once in a while could very well be a good thing. at least i think it would keep people on their toes... |
|
|
|
UnTuckable
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 2318
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
#9 |
| Is USHPA the pilots or just a few BODs? |
|
|
|
sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: |
#10 |
| UnTuckable wrote: |
| Is USHPA the pilots or just a few BODs? |
I think they are answering that question right now
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
|
|
|
|
peanuts
3 thumbs up
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 1880
Location: virginia
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: |
#11 |
| ushGa |
|
|
|
Jason
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 7531
Location: Stapleton, Colorado
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:45 am Post subject: |
#12 |
| sg wrote: |
| UnTuckable wrote: |
| Is USHPA the pilots or just a few BODs? |
I think they are answering that question right now |
we already know they care more about the "organization" then the pilots, this just highlights that
_________________
TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
|
|
|
UnTuckable
1 thumbs up
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 2318
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:50 am Post subject: |
#13 |
| Jason wrote: |
| sg wrote: |
| UnTuckable wrote: |
| Is USHPA the pilots or just a few BODs? |
I think they are answering that question right now |
we already know they care more about the "organization" then the pilots, this just highlights that |
Fire the BOD, let the pilots rule! |
|
|
|
CHassan
3 thumbs up
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 4593
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
#14 |
I'd agree there is no call for the EC to try to tell Bob he can not use his RD title in correspondence relating to Torrey, but allow Brad to use his.
A Regional Director Recall Procedure 02-09, is sure to follow!
_________________
Airborne Climax 14 (C1)
WW U2
H3
AT, FL,ST, RLF, TUR.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. … Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties. ~~~Douglas Adams |
|
|
|
xerxes
3 thumbs up
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 1313
Location: Atlanta
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: |
#15 |
So how about a quick "previously on politics...." for people who haven't been keeping up with this stuff. Could someon explain who the folks involved are, the role of the soaring council, Bob, Brad, etc?
_________________
Carpool to local flying sites from Atlanta:
http://www.flyhighatlanta.com
----------------------------------------------------------
H2 AT FL CL FSL
Mark IV |
|
|
|
bobk
3 thumbs up
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1842
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: |
#16 |
| peanuts wrote: |
| exactly how many peoples need to be voted out??? a noted virginian, thomas jefferson, once stated that a little revolution every once in a while could very well be a good thing. at least i think it would keep people on their toes... |
Thanks for all the comments of support. I do think something is broken at USHPA...
David Jebb's actions while Regional Director:
1. Threatens Torrey by violating California Coastal Commission regulations.
2. Threatens Torrey by violating local permitting processes
3. Threatens Torrey by kicking out pilots without any reason
USHPA's response: None???
Bob Kuczewski's actions while Regional Director:
1. Asks USHPA for help to gain fair representation for a USHPA Chapter on the Soaring Council where our sports are severely under-represented. USHPA's response: A letter of reprimand
Last year I began asking some of our best and most well-respected pilots to run for Regional Director. Many sympathized with the problems but did not want to run. I can now understand why. But if we want to clean up this mess, we're going to need to field another candidate this year. I know there are many great pilots who have what it takes to clean up this mess. I beg you to consider running for Regional Director this spring. I will do whatever I can to support you.
If we want USHPA to be our club, we're going to have to work for it. If we don't really step up, it will be business as usual. I can already tell that some factions in USHPA are trying to minimize my own effectiveness. We'll need a Regional Director on our side who's been well-known and well-respected in ways that I am not. Please consider stepping forward. I can tell you that I've gotten tremendous support despite my obvious flaws. I'm sure many of you can do much better than I have. This community is here to support you. Please run!!
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
Proudly speaking as the elected representative of Region 3 pilots
_________________
Bob Kuczewski: H4/P4 - Torrey Hawks, CSS, SHGA, E-Team, Soboba Soaring, Founding Member of the HGAA
Learn to fly hang gliders • Join the Torrey Hawks • Fly the Big O Loop!!
"Hang Gliding must be represented by an organization that cannot survive without it" - gs |
|
|
|
CHassan
3 thumbs up
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 4593
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
#17 |
| CHassan wrote: |
I'd agree there is no call for the EC to try to tell Bob he can not use his RD title in correspondence relating to Torrey, but allow Brad to use his.
A Regional Director Recall Procedure 02-09, is sure to follow! |
Ehhhem....
Quoted from SDHGPA
| Quote: |
by Jonie- Fly Life on Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:45 am
Sorry to those that do not want more politics but the support is unanimous.
There is a petition underway to replace Bob as RD for all the counter productive
nonsense.
You can send your name and USHPA number to me for entry.
Please send to res208yl@...
First order is a petition for recall then the vote.
We will release the new candidate statements shortly.
This phase is just about approving the recall vote.
You must be a current USHPA member to petition.
The new candidate has the entire region as his interest and will be much more
productive and agreeable.
Blessings,
JonieJonie- Fly Life
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:58 pm
Name: Jonie Millhouse
Phone Number: 951-536-7071
Paraglider pilot: Yes |
_________________
Airborne Climax 14 (C1)
WW U2
H3
AT, FL,ST, RLF, TUR.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. … Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties. ~~~Douglas Adams
Last edited by CHassan on Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Jason
3 thumbs up
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 7531
Location: Stapleton, Colorado
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
#18 |
| CHassan wrote: |
| CHassan wrote: |
I'd agree there is no call for the EC to try to tell Bob he can not use his RD title in correspondence relating to Torrey, but allow Brad to use his.
Quoted from SDHGPA
| Quote: |
| A Regional Director Recall Procedure 02-09, is sure to follow! |
Ehhhem....
by Jonie- Fly Life on Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:45 am
Sorry to those that do not want more politics but the support is unanimous.
There is a petition underway to replace Bob as RD for all the counter productive
nonsense.
You can send your name and USHPA number to me for entry.
Please send to res208yl@...
First order is a petition for recall then the vote.
We will release the new candidate statements shortly.
This phase is just about approving the recall vote.
You must be a current USHPA member to petition.
The new candidate has the entire region as his interest and will be much more
productive and agreeable.
Blessings,
JonieJonie- Fly Life
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:58 pm
Name: Jonie Millhouse
Phone Number: 951-536-7071
Paraglider pilot: Yes |
|
great
a bunch of sore loosers, you guys lost the election fair and square, don't get your panties in a bunch, thats what happens when you treat people like s***, keep it up and more of you will fall
_________________
TSA, DHS, NDAA and SOPA Seig Heil! |
|
|
|
sg
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 11030
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: |
#19 |
| xerxes wrote: |
| So how about a quick "previously on politics...." for people who haven't been keeping up with this stuff. Could someon explain who the folks involved are, the role of the soaring council, Bob, Brad, etc? |
I updated my original post with this info
_________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. |
|
|
|
|
Frontman
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 213
Location: Bay Area Cali
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: |
#20 |
I'm new to this sport, but can say that in my life I have stood up for what is right almost to a flaw. Nextel tried to screw us as a dealer years ago, not paying commissions, and I was simply supposed to shut up about it. Instead, I dropped them as a carrier and converted about 3000+ of our Nextel subscribers to T-Mobile. Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book.
If we are not getting a fair deal, propose a NEW organization. Competition for the all mighty dollar moves people more than writing letters. I'm sure in today's economy there are several insurance companies that would bend over backwards for a couple hundred new members, and a potential few thousand members ;-)
Again, I'm just adding my two cents as a new member to this sport. I have read the numerous Torrey threads and I'm beginning to believe more and more about what I'm reading. Follow the money trail, and if you want real change, divert that trail.
_________________
Gary - H3 Wills Wing U2
My day jobs - Cellular and Alarm/Video Surveillance Systems |
|
|
|
|
Unanswered
Highest rated...
Topics
