[skypimp]

When landing with my 195 F-3 to get speed I have to dive it (I think)

like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sllGfjM1wNE

My question is --- is it good to dive like I am ?

I have a habit of doing it this way, and would like to know

from a person who knows how a falcon flies and how it should be done ?

And is there any other way to come in with speed on a falcon ?

Thanks
SP

[Wagner24314]

that looks fine to me but flare better and strait

[JohnG]

That did not look like a dive to me... I don't think you are pulling in enough. Get your hands on the control bar and pull that sucker in!

Really though, it didn't look like a dive.

From my understanding, there is no such thing as coming into ground effect with too much speed. As in, you can never 'dive' too hard (unless you forget to roll out when you get to the ground!)

[Nibs]

A falcon has little energy retention so pull in and you'll sink like a rock. This makes it really easy to hit spots and land it in small fields. If all you are ever going to fly is a falcon, I don't really see the harm.

When you move up to a double surface however, it's a completely different story. You pull in and it will sink faster than it does when you aren't flying fast, but more importantly you'll start burning up a lot of LZ with the extra glide and in fact, you may overshoot the LZ.

I can't tell from the video how fast you are flying your approach but if you have to pull in real hard to bring it down, it means you are starting your final approach leg too high. My guess is that the problem starts earlier... you are probably starting your downwind approach too high. This is a common with new pilots... I did it, and most everyone I know did too, and like I said, with a falcon, there really isn't much harm in it. You have too much altitude which can be easily bled off (on a falcon) with extra airspeed and that's a much better place to be than too low with no options.

Once you become more comfortable with your approaches, you will start your patterns lower so that you can shoot your entire approach at about the same speed from downwind to base to final and nail the spot. This is the *right* way to do it. But don't stress about it now. The easiest way to adjust is to start making your approaches a little lower, one flight at a time until you don't have to pull in like crazy to get the glider down.

One disclaimer.... I don't know much about your flying area, the LZ you are landing in etc so take this advice as such and make sure to talk it over with your instructor.

[sg]

You could dive it in even more than that. Just dont let it climb out after your dive at all. Your landing would have been better if you didnt let it balloon up at all. (I realize it was uphill but you got away from the ground regardless).

[jjcote]

Dive? What dive? There's no dive in that video. I think you should, sometime soon, get to the vicinity of the LZ with a lot of extra altitude, and see what diving really means. Pull the bar way in and see how it handles (you may need to know that someday). You can pull in a lot more than that. Since it's a Falcon, you won't really move forward much faster, but you'll definitely sink faster!

(And pulling in is kinda the only way to speed up.)

[red]

SP,

I see nothing wrong with that approach. You held good airspeed, and there were no radical moves. Safe landing approaches are never going to be a "bad habit." As you gain a lot of experience with any LZ, you will know how much extra airspeed to allow, for the usual wind gradient and turbulence found there. Then it would be wise to add an extra five to that, always. If you need some extra speed down lower, there will be no way to go back and get it, later. Have all the speed you will need, no matter what, every time. You can always burn off the excess, just before you flare.

Until you have a very good handle on your local LZ, a fast approach is a safe approach. Nothing wrong there! Floating in at minimal airspeed might look okay, but it scares the daylights out of the aces, who know how badly things can go, when they go bad. The camera angle was not the best, to get the information you want to hear. When you land, find the best local pilot who watched the landing, and ask advice from that pilot. (I wasn't there.) These are the pilots who can "fine-tune" your landing skills for you, over time.

Okay, you were slightly off the wind line, and a slow, gentle flare does nothing to help that. A slight turn, maybe 15 degrees to the right when you were twenty-five feet (~one wingspan) high, would have made the landing better. A faster, stronger flare (right where you did a slow one) would have helped, too. These are fairly minor corrections, when you are strolling away from the landing like that. You did a good landing. You can make it better, just so you know.

[Redbeard]

this is the only falcon flying i have done "at speed". so i would say you have a ways to pull in before you are truly diving.

just don't approach at trim... pull on some speed, bleed off that "extra speed" in ground effect (slowly letting out the bar--not pushing out-- to maintain your altitude above the ground) go to trim, and flare! you'll get it...

[noman3]

when in doubt,push out

[flakey]

You looked safe. I like to build speed as I fly through the pattern so that I'm slowing as I approch the ground. The thing you want to pay attenion to is your angle of attack relative to the ground slope. Landing uphill like Mclure you want to round out sooner. The rub is controling roll as you let the nose up to slow down. Just don't dive at the ground.

[skypilot155]

John,
Next time you get a chance when you're really high, pull in hard, really put your body over the base tube and see what it feels like. Like it was said before, you won't build a whole lot of speed (because it's a falcon) but it will let you know how the glider feels and handles with a steep AOA.

Your looking great, keep at it

[Jason]

Things which do you no good in aviation:
1-Altitude above you.
2-Runway behind you.
3-A navigator.
4-Half a second ago.
5-The airspeed you don't have.




Notice that building up a lot of speed is a good way to end up with problem 2 on a high performance wing, coming in hot is great and all, but in some LZ's its a great way to end up in the bushes

[AIRTHUG]

the "dive" looked good to me- given no/light wind conditions. If there was more wind, I would want to come in with even more speed (more likelyhood of a gradient).

However, there is a difference between pulling on speed gradually, and agressively pulling in all at once. The latter will bring the nose down dramatically- pointing you down at the ground... you don't want this. Try to be smooth. Many pilots combine their dive with their turn onto final (a slipping turn)... it may be a bit more advanced than where you are in your training, consult your instructor.

I'm surprised no one commented on the blatant cross control while flaring.

Your right wing gets high, so you move your upper body that way. Watch your legs go to the left and actually make it worse. Gotta get those hips (and legs) in the right direction. Fly the glider all the time, even during the flare (that means you can steer WHILE flaring- which you did try, but didn't succeed)...

[noman3]

[Scott]

yes there is a way to come in faster,carry some wire cutters with you when you fly.When in the air and you want down fast,just reach out and cut your side wire[/quote]

just ignore noman...here's a pic of 1 of his many bad habits..
here noman carries on a conversation with his invisible,and sadly only,friend....

[noman3]

man i got a pointy head

[Scott]

[hgflyer]

Smoking crack is a bad habit! cigarettes, alcohol, hitting your spouse, stealing,killing, cheating, lying, over eating, etc......

Oh, I forgot! this is a hanggliding forum.

Bad launches are a bad habit, bad landings, no hooked in check, not clearing turns, bragging, complaining, and thinking you know it all.

I think I hit on some important habits.

[Scott]

Bad launches are a bad habit, bad landings, no hooked in check, not clearing turns, bragging, complaining, and thinking you know it all.

I think I hit on some important habits.[/quote]

[hgflyer]

I forgot to mention...

Watching American Idol is a very bad habit. Wanting gun laws to relax...So you can shoot and kill your TV's.... A good habit.