Comparing blowing up your HG, because you are doing dangerous aerobatic maneuvers, that you screw up, has nothing to do with HG safety. Even a sailplane can rip its wings off with a pull up that exceeds it VNE.
But PG's fold up in thermal turbulence at a very very high rate compared to HG's or Sailplanes. In fact, its their #1 cause of accidents.
Hg's and sailplanes do not.
Looks to me like more of a chance to get smashed up by your spinning/tumbling HG to me. That is heaps more dangerous than falling in a collapsing PG wing, and throwing your reserve chute.
In the above HG fold up on the YouTube video, its lucky that HG pilots reserve even opened up at all.
Anyway, I know which wing Id prefer to fly. HG-NOT. _________________ glider type=PG gala bat kite with super cavitating tip vortices's and a mark 9 glide extender(with the high performance chip)
sign offs= none cause im just not ready for them
interests=sticking my finger where it dont belong
favorite saying=if your going to be dumb you got to be tough
Is a mixture of Hang gliding and Snot. _________________ glider type=PG gala bat kite with super cavitating tip vortices's and a mark 9 glide extender(with the high performance chip)
sign offs= none cause im just not ready for them
interests=sticking my finger where it dont belong
favorite saying=if your going to be dumb you got to be tough
sg, to be fair you did also post a video of a PG doing acro.
Thats true, but PG's get gift wrapped in turbulence too.
We had a PG pilot die a couple of years ago in san diego due to thermal gift wrapping. Couldnt throw his chute. SPLAT R.I.P.
What a terrifying way to go _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Dear Lord... what the hell are you guys flying in?
I've never even been close to getting "thermal giftwrapped" as you put it... and I fly in all kinds of nastiness, with all manner of PGers that fly in all manner of weather... some even fly in stuff I won't take my HG in (they're insane in my opinion).
All the reserve deployments I've seen, HG and PG (usually two a year) have been during acro.
So pardon me, but... you are leaving out some very important aspects off said story. That's like saying that hang gliders just tumble out of the blue... Bull. And while we're on the topic... yeah, HG's do deploy due to turbulence... aka, getting tumbled. But that doesn't sound as scary to HG pilots cuz you understand all the other ingredients.
--sheesh--
Ok... return to your regularly scheduled PG bashing
Jim
I talked to a PG guy the other day from our club who had just got back from the PG worlds. One death, nearly 30 deployments and about as many tree landings. I asked if they would be going with another location next time, he said no they'll stick to that one probably 'cause there were plenty of flyable days. He said the statistics were basically 1 in 5 people who flew the comp had a deployment. I said I don't like thermaling under a PG, he said even I don't like getting under a comp wing. He said colapses were hourly.
Anyone who thinks PGs are as safe as HGs are blissfully ignorant. _________________ C4 13, KTM 300 2-stroke.
Anyone who thinks PGs are as safe as HGs are blissfully ignorant.[quote]
I agree with this statement!!
Long time Hangglider pilot , Willi Muller who flew forever, safely on a hanglider
first broke his femur in a paraglider and then was killed on a paraglider.
The mere fact that these wings are purely wind dependent to maintain their structure speaks for itself
I also have decided to fly a PG , BUT, will save it for hike and fly early calm mornings only.
Just dont trust them the way I do my hangglider.
HG for me on " real flying days "
PeteR
Its funny how this topic always ends up..............
It will always be an argument.
It always comes down to opinion.........
Everything has thier pros and cons. _________________ Everyone who lives dies, yet not everyone who dies, has lived.
We take these risks not to escape life, but to prevent life escaping us.
Yup, a guy asks why there are fewer schools and out comes the usual PG vs HG stuff (completely disregarding his question).
No worries.
Ya'll are painfully ignorant about PG and it shows... so many opinions (and very definitive opinions at that) from so many that have never even so much as picked one up. You have no idea what you're talking about but you seem to think you're some kind of experts.
Ahhh... talk about bliss ;)
Have fun guys... I'll just be enjoying the show.
YE YE YE YE hang glider no paraglider no hang glider ..........
mynes bigger than yours NO mynes bigger.........
FUUUUUUUUUUUU&#%^K........
Hay the wind looks good....I'm off flying.......(my HG)
see you latter
_________________ fun 190
U2
Ya'll are painfully ignorant about PG and it shows... so many opinions (and very definitive opinions at that) from so many that have never even so much as picked one up. You have no idea what you're talking about but you seem to think you're some kind of experts.
Ahhh... talk about bliss ;)
Have fun guys... I'll just be enjoying the show.
Tell me all about a HG comp where there are 1 in 5 deployments and cure my ignorance. _________________ C4 13, KTM 300 2-stroke.
Yup, a guy asks why there are fewer schools and out comes the usual PG vs HG stuff (completely disregarding his question).
tc75 wrote:
Guys,
I'm considering giving free flight a go. I used to fly sailplanes but have not flown for a few years and fancy getting back in the air. The issue that I have is that I can't decide whether to give HG or PG a go.
I'm very aware of the more limited weather window that PGs can fly in, but the practicality of PG does appeal. However as an ex-sailplane pilot the performance of Hanggliders appeals.
I honestly don't know what to do. One thing I keep asking myself is why (certainly here in the UK) are there many PG schools but very few HG schools?? There must be a reason for this...
Decisions, decisions...
Any advice?
Tony
As you can see from the high lighted section, or lack of high light section the school question was only one part of his post, we just chose to offer opinions on the bulk of his post. I felt the post was begging for a HG versus PG slant, if Tony is smart he would have started a similar thread on a PG forum, now he can take all OPINIONS into account and form his own _________________ C4 13, KTM 300 2-stroke.
That's like saying that hang gliders just tumble out of the blue... Bull. And while we're on the topic... yeah, HG's do deploy due to turbulence... aka, getting tumbled. But that doesn't sound as scary to HG pilots cuz you understand all the other ingredients.
Sorry Jim, but you cant equivocate the two. I went into details over the stats in another thread. There are strings of YEARS without a single HG tumble. But there are many PG collapses every year. Hell, numerous at even a single comp at times.
PG collapses show up as the #1 cause of accidents in the PG stats. Too many near the ground.
HG tumbles dont even show up on the stats for most years.
Not comparable. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Copy of my older post. The truth about PGs and turbulence
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is USHPA's phase of flight graph
Notice that the large majority of PG issues occur WHILE IN FLIGHT
We already saw what "in flight" means for a PG
I guess a lot of people can just put this out of their head and assume it will never happen to them. I just cant. That little voice in the back of my head would drive me nuts. And for what? Convenience?
My other summary post - lots of good stats from ushpa
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what worries me too much about PGs
Compare the stats for PG and HG when it comes to phase of flight and accidents. Notice the difference with HGs since they dont have many issues with collapse/turbulence.
Keep in mind that as of spring 2007, there are still more HG pilots than PG pilots in the USA
HG = 4707
PG = 3811
2003 HG - 3 in flight accidents. 1 collision with a sailplane. 1 tumble. 1 failed aerobatic spin.
2003 PG - ***37*** in flight accidents!!!
2004 HG - ZERO in flight accidents.
2004 PG - ***20*** in flight accidents
2005 HG - 1 in flight incident, when a PG flew into an HG and almost got entwined. The PG admitted fault.
2005 PG - ***15*** in flight accidents
Below you can see what exactly "in flight" means.
Code word for "s*** that goes wrong when you fly without a frame"
Notice that aerobatics only account for a mere 3%. Look at who the big hitters are when it comes to problems.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some interesting 2001 stats for PGs (chose 2001 because they had contributing details for causes of accidents)
* Asymmetric or frontal deflation: 18%
* Thermal turbulence: 14%
* Negative spin: 6%
* Mechanical turbulence: 1%
NOTE: The first two make up 32% of the issues due to a PG's inability to consistently hold together in turbulence. Negative spins are also not an issue with HG, which makes the stats worse.
* Poorly inflated takeoff: 20%
* Strong wind: 20%
NOTE: 20% a fifth of accidents, due to their inability to deal with much wind/ narrow operating window.
* Rotor: 16% (an HG can handle far more of this too)
* Hill collision: 14%
* Obstacle in LZ: 9%
* Outside LZ: 9%
* Power lines: 9%
* Blown back: 9% - better in an HG
* 'Rusty' pilot: 9%
* Preflight error: 8%
* Panic: 8%
* Turning in LZ: 8%
* Stall: 8%
* Launch obstacle: 8%
* Tail wind LZ: 6%
* Too close to ground: 6%
* Sloping LZ: 5%
* No brake flare: 5%
* Crowded airspace: 5%
* Dragged by wind: 5%
NOTE: Another wind issue - getting dragged by your chute
Now look at these accident summaries for years 2001 to 2005 from ushpa
Quote:
If you've ever wondered what kind of factors contribute to a paraglider accident, the past 5 years' data gives us a good idea. I know I promised 'no lists' earlier on, but here's a short one listing all factors that account for more than 10% of all reported accidents:
* Thermal Turbulence: 18.25%
* Strong Wind: 13.76%
* Asymmetric Deflation: 12.70%
* Too close to Ground: 12.17%
* Rotor: 11.90%
* Outside LZ: 10.58%
* Poorly Inflated Takeoff: 10.32%
NOTE: The first 3 make up 44.7% of accident causes. Things I can avoid or do much better than with an HG.
Im constantly told, you have to fly them in the right conditions.
But it seems that 45% of the time, they fail to do so
-------------------
When do PG accidents occur? Ushpa summaries for a few years
"In Flight" ranges from 26 to 52%. Virtually non-existent for HG's, almost never mentioned by ushpa. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
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