[sg]

[Spark]

Thanks for asking.

My wife and I have two children. My daughter just turned 21 and will be finishing college next year. My son will soon be 14. It is no exaggeration to say that they are both exceptionally intelligent and multi-talented.

I owe an eternal debt of gratitude to my wife of 25 years who has spent most of the last 21 years working diligently (by conscious choice) as 'home maker' - focusing on the children's growth and education - academic and otherwise.

Helping my wife to provide for and raise our children has been one of the most meaningful and defining aspects of my life. The experiences have helped me to grow and mature and gain a perspective on life that I would not trade for anything in the world, including Hang Gliding.

That is all I have to say

[Jason]

[JohnG]

Well... hmmm... uh...

I am finding this thread to be fascinating. One year and 3 months ago I would have completely supported SG. COMPLETELY. Then I went into a hospital... When I came out I was one with the universe. It really doesn't matter that you don't get it SG. The reality is that you CAN'T get it. You CANNOT understand. I know you probably think you can, but really, you can't. There are two types of people. Those who have kids, and those that do not.

I am an elementary school teacher. I have been for some time. I KNOW kids, I love kids. But I didn't have a clue until the moment I saw my daughter for the first time. It was a connection with humanity... with my ancestors... with the universe.

And it is even more wonderful when I think that just over a year ago, I was ranting about how having the need to have your own kid was the ulitimate in myopic/ egotistical behavior. There are only so many resources on the planet... and so many kids already exist that could/should be getting those resources. The idea that someone feels the need to add their OWN child to the mix is bullshit really. I get it. But then the universe opened up and showed me something else.

This is how I see it however... kids don't make or break happiness. It is the adults vision of a fulfilled or unfulfilled life that makes or breaks happiness. Many people didn't choose to have kids. Many who did choose, chose when they were too young to realize what that choice would mean. Most don't get to completely live their own life, or fulfill their own dreams because of this. That life choice they may regret. Their own ability or inability to still fulfill their dreams WITH their kids present is also based on their own vision of how their society tells them how to live. None of these things are the FAULT of kids however. They are the inadequacies of the parents involved.

Ironically, my life was egotistical/myopic before my baby joined me in the world. Now, my life isn't about me. It is about me passing on life to her. Giving her the ability to walk in the world in the way that she needs to...

Happiness is finding a golf ball in your shoe. It is better than flying.

-peace.

[peanuts]

1 adopted kid, 2 natcheral. 6 grand babies, aged 12, 15, 16, 17, 2@19, and 1 25. oh, and me, aged old enough to buy beer.

[Radwhacker]

[FormerFF]

I have two daughters, ages 7 and 8. I wouldn't trade my family life for any amount of free time or career opportunity, but that's me, at my current age. At age 25 I wouldn't have liked having this much responsibility.

I think some of the dissatisfaction that today's parents are reporting is due to the increase in the number of two earner households. My wife works on the average of 10 hours a week, so is the primary caregiver for our children. If she worked full time, we'd be much more stressed and our daughters could not do some of the things they do, like be in the school play or take dance classes.

Another issue that I'm guessing is weighing on the mind of many parents is the economic instability we're now having, and the general weakness of the job market this decade. When you're single, you can live in your car if you have to, but that doesn't work if you have a family.

Here's a nice benefit: During Spring Break next month, we're going up to northwest Georgia for a couple of days, and my wife and older daughter will be taking their first tandems.

[relate2]

[Scott]

I teach the evil little monsters Tang Soo Do....but don't have any.
I never ever want any of my own.Have you seen what kids do to cars?
No kids learning to crash/drive with my fleet of rusting iron.

[noman3]

i have a smoking hot daughter and a gun,yall back off or ill kill u.

[sg]

[JohnG]

SG, there is no reason to take offense. Are you saying that you know what it is like when a woman gives birth? I wasn't making a judgement, and it wouldn't matter if you were my best friend or a stranger... It doesn't matter anyway. I don't care either way about your insistence. Fine, you understand the moment. Does that make you happier??? It isn't good or bad. It just is. It doesn't make some people better, or some people lesser. So for you I will change my statement. In my opinion, most people can't really understand what it is like to create a "mini-me" until they experience it for themselves. Disclaimer: Your experiences may vary!

In regards to evolution, and Rad's comment. I agree completely. I wasn't claiming religious belief one way or the other.

In regards to the people that don't feel anything, or the people that kill their kids, or the people that abandon their kids... I agree, that just shows that the issue isn't black and white. But I would argue again, that the issue really isn't about the kids themselves, but where that parent is in their psychological, emotional, and egocentric journey. I have a friend who was there for the birth of his child, and he told me he felt absolutely nothing. He didn't care anything really for the baby. That made him feel even worse about himself.

I am not sure why you feel so strongly on this topic SG. I also don't know what you mean by "society is selling" something either. I do know that I agree with you that kids don't make or break someones happiness. I think I already wrote that.

[phantomflier]

Have we forgotten that children are the result of two people who, according to my worldview, love each other profoundly, and express that love in an act of bonding, of closeness. That we as a society have completely SCREWED that up is beside the point. But wanting a kid is not necessarily a conscious choice to replicate ourselves in a narcissistic way. For $@#%'s sake man, I got married to a beautiful lady and had a family. Leave it to you intellectuals to tear that apart. Poverty and homelessness are horrible things, but pardon me for not thinking about them while I'm having sex with my wife.

[phantomflier]

<<<<<---------- she's so cute....she looks just like her mommy and daddy!!!

[blindrodie]

You know this is a great freakin thread.

Spark I'm in. JohnG (also my youngest brothers initials ) I like the way you speak your mind. Rad you're gowin to hell for that picture it's sooo wrong SG this website is really making a difference in peoples lives if only in the moment. Noman I would not expect less!

I'm a 7%er at this point. Two daughters 21/24 and on their own (yeah right) but living outside of our home. Thanks to my wife as well for filling in where I fell out (like 75%). I'm truly enjoying the empty nest syndrome.

Thanks for all the heart and brain activity. See you in the SKY!

[sg]

[edisurfer]

[sg]

In the end were just biological computers. There are only so many hormones released due to experience X,Y,Z.

So when a woman claims you cant know pain as a man because youve never given birth HOGWASH. Pain is pain. Tell that to a veteran that had both his legs blown off and his guts hanging out of his body. Everyone experiences the same pain. Its only a matter of degrees. Hell, some women have been known to pop a kid out, and walk out of the hospital fine as if nothing happened. How bad could it have been??!?!?


Experiments have shown that women on narrow tall bridges who meet strange men mistaken the fear/rush/euphoria of being on the bridge for love/lust/interest in the stranger standing in front of them. Why? Its the SAME damn hormone Motorcycle riders know this little secret.

So when someone says...I felt X, when my child was born, its the same euphoric feeling humans feel when they experience Q,R and T, whether it be the birth of their child, their first thermal core, or having sex with 5 super models while on oxytocin

So in a sense, for some people, having kids is "their drug", for others its something else. Weve all felt "it" at some point in our lives, but in many different ways. Different people, different receptors = different drugs But like religion, I have an issue with people trying to push their particular drug on me. Let people choose their own.

We share the HG drug here. On that we can relate

[edisurfer]

[Scott]