[JohnG]

I fly a lot at the POM, I spend a lot of time flying with paragliders. What about the rest of you?

What kind of experiences do you have- or have had?

In particular, I am also wondering how close you allow yourself to get to paragliders while flying... What is your comfort level?

[AIRTHUG]

[JohnG]

I already know what you think!

[FormerFF]

Not many of them around here. The one person I know who flies a PG tells me the conditions aren't very good for PGing.

[Nibs]

Not often but I have in the past. My experiences have been positive because they have always been over areas with plenty of room and no traffic (just a couple of them in the air). They usually launch first so they act as wind dummies for you, and while you are in the air with them they help mark the lift. They also mean more people to talk flying with while you hang wait, and more people to share the enthusiasm over a great flight with in the LZ.

I've heard plenty of horror stories and can understand how the two worlds could clash under the wrong circumstances but so far my experiences have been completely positive. Just don't ask me to fly one

[relate2]

I fly with them quiet often at Stanwell and all is fine when the conditions are good and we can get out of each others way, but if it gets scratchy and right of way rules come into play I tend to land and not bother. It becomes too much like hard work continually having to fly out of the lift band, then scratch back up again just to have to do the same again on the next pass.

It seems to work better with Hang gliders in scratchy conditions as you can set up a circuit and because you fly at the same speed you just keep yourself at the same distance behind or in front of each other avoiding the crossing and flying out of the lift band. Also a paraglider takes up so much more sky than a hang glider. I can pass over the top of a hang glider at a height that would have me hitting the canopy of a paraglider.

[bradgeary]

HG are flying very close to my PG all the time. just ask wolfgang, Heiny, and joe spinney exactly how close they are comfortable fly to my PG. (dont forget to bring the VG rope in before finger F)*&king my glider!) super bad ass vids posting asap!

[PredatorJoe]

Every time I fly torrey I share the air with several bags. Quite often I'm the only HG in the air among them. The only exception is on the rare days when it blows over 18ish when nearly none of them will fly.

Since PG's are so slow to change altitude, I'm fine with buzzing pretty close above or below when traffic gets tight. Otherwise, I'll pass them on the ridge side (when it's on my right) to avoid them turning into me.

I was taught that everyone should be aware of other pilots in their proximity at all times, especially at a ridge site where everyone is in a fixed area. Mark Lilledahl used to tell me it's unacceptable to say "sorry, I didn't see you". He told me how fellow pilots used to have an agreement that if you could sneak up on a pilot and surprise him, he would have to land and re-asses his awareness.

There are a handful of PG pilots at torrey (ok, maybe 2 handfuls) that ARE aware of their surroundings and realize they are not the only pilots in the air. But for the rest it seems quite common for them to have no clue about awareness. They make turns without looking and at times fly in parallel taking up the entire width of the lift band regardless of any other aircraft that may be approaching. In any case, I fly like I ride my bicycle - I assume NO ONE sees me - PG or HG. I'm always watching their flight path well before it becomes a close encounter.

Sometimes I have fun teaching other pilots awareness by surprising them with a kingpost or wingtip just below their feet (that's when a topless would b nice) Other times I'll fly up close and yell "HOWDY!!!" and watch their eyes get big as they wonder "where did he come from??" I know it's effective because I've seen awareness levels change.

[jimrooney]

If I know the pilot, close enough to carry on a conversation.
If I don't, then it depends. Students fly with red streamers, I give them a pretty wide birth. Regular pilots generally close enough to yell to, but not talk to.

The character of the air and the character of their flying have a big influence on things obviously.

Jim

[designbydave]

[sg]

[ctptincomp]

I saw a PG in person for the first time yesterday. He spent some time untangling his lines, raised the caopy a couple times, but didn't fly. There are some sites near me where they are a bit more common.

[spork]

Not only do I fly with them - I fly them. I've gone biwingual, and I don't care who knows it.

[skypilot155]

I've flown with then often at Hat Creek. It has never been a problem except one time this idiot instructor brought 18 newby PG 1 and 2's up there from San Francisco (you know who you are) and thought it would be a good idea to put them in the air at the same time 7 or 8 of us HG guys were on the ridge. Being newbys they just lauched and pretty much didn't move away from the lauch area (those things can really hover). When I landed I give the instructor a piece of my mind. I don't blame the student PGers at all, I blame the idiot instructor from San Francisco.

Actually I'm thinking really hard about becoming BiWingual myself NOT

[Wonder Boy]

[DBrose]

I fly with the bags every soarable day at my local site, they are there more often than the HGers...I am one of Pgers...hehe.
I always tell them that I may crash into them if they don't look over their shoulder before turning....they stay away. We do a thing called "playing opposites".
Which means "you over there" ..."me over here" and switch when needed.
DB

[Wonder Boy]

Good read here:
http://www.ushpa.aero/article12.asp

HANG GLIDERS VERSUS PARAGLIDERS

Hang gliders and paragliders often encounter some problems when they share the air together. This might be an understatement – sometimes the rift between the more hotheaded members of the "airbag" and "plumber" communities makes the feud of the Hatfields and the McCoys look like a group hug by comparison.

Understanding some basic differences and correcting some bad habits can reduce conflict and tension. The big differences between hangs and paras are speed, turning speed, aircraft size, and pitch control. Let’s look at these.

Tandem and competition flying aside, most recreational paragliders generally fly at remarkably similar speeds with each other. They have a relatively small range of speeds, and they rarely pass each other, so they often don’t readily empathize with those who pass them.

Hang gliders generally fly faster than paragliders, forcing the hang gliders into a passing situation – all the time when flying with paragliders. Passing someone requires more care and responsibility than being passed by someone else.

Paragliders generally react slower to turn initiation, and rotate more slowly into the turn.

These speed and turning differences often result in a paraglider feeling like they can’t react fast enough to stay out of the hang gliders’ way, so some pilots sort of resign themselves to watching the hang glider do all the collision avoidance.

This isn’t fair, it’s just something I see happening. Paragliders need to understand this, to fly more courteously, to do what they can, especially initiating avoidance actions early. Hang glider pilots need to recognize these differences and not expect paragliders to do some things that only a hang glider can do.

The worst paragliders go so far as to blow off the right of way rules, partly because honoring them would require a lot of foresight and initiating yielding action much much earlier than they are used to. Some use this as an excuse to rudely hog the lift. This is unacceptable behavior and needs to change.

Next difference: hang gliders have pitch control, paragliders really don’t. This gives hang gliders a bit more liberty and options (and therefore, responsibility) when sharing the air and avoiding collisions.

Last difference: when I fly my tandem paraglider, my aircraft is a whopping 33 feet tall. I’ve often seen hang gliders flying very close together in a thermal – they love it. There’s just no way to put a 33-foot tall slower paraglider in there without causing some disruption. I’ll avoid it if there’s other lift to be had, and when I can’t avoid it we both need to just calmly work around each other.

We have a choice: we can keep our "clan mentality" and complain about each other, or we can just adapt and go fly and make the best of it and enjoy it. If you really want to understand another type of aircraft, talk to someone who flies both and is passionate about it. I have a standing offer to give any rated hang glider pilot a tandem paragliding flight, free of charge. I hope we’ll all benefit from more understanding and some courtesy.

[sg]

Paragliders need to read this 1,000,000 times each

"The worst paragliders go so far as to blow off the right of way rules, partly because honoring them would require a lot of foresight and initiating yielding action much much earlier than they are used to. Some use this as an excuse to rudely hog the lift. This is unacceptable behavior and needs to change. "

This blow off of the rules is so common I often wonder if its actually taught to them

[Wonder Boy]

[sg]

I often notice that hang glider pilots who take up paragliding DO NOT do this.
I suspect because their sphere of awareness is based on hang gliding speeds, and they therefore look instinctually far enough ahead to react in time.

Paragliders on the other hand, form habits based on their slower flying speed with other PGs.

For example, they will often look behind them, and see im 100 yards down the ridge and assume everything is clear. A few seconds later they make a turn WITHOUT CLEARING THEIR TURN. A PG could never cover that 100 yards in the time it took for them to turn, so they feel safe and assume its still clear. Unknown to the PG, I stuffed the bar, hit 70mph, closed the gap and am now right up along side of him. He then suddenly starts turning without looking and is SHOCKED to find I am there

These are the kinds of assumptions PGs cannot make with regards to HGs, and HGs cannot make with regards to sailplanes.

Ive explained this scenario to many a PG pilot... and they get that "Oooooooooooh look" when it suddenly occurs to them why they must always clear their turns.

This stuff should really be part of every PG curriculum, if its not already.