[a j simons]

Are there any other BA HG pilots and if so how does our sport impact your faith.I know my prayer life has increased and my appreciation of the wonders of flight went to a new level. The provision in just the air density and wind direction over the ridge can make me say haleluja Cheers Tony.

[phantomflier]

Hi Tony, firstly let me take issue with your supposition that it takes FAITH to appreciate the wonders of flight. I bet there are a great many pilots here with no faith at all that 'appreciate' the wonders of air density just as much as you! Having said THAT, I am a man of faith, and I do appreciate all the wonders of this Earth, as a creation of God, even more when I am flying. I'm not saying I enjoy it more than the next guy... just more than I usually do.

I want to know I am in good standing with God before every flight, I may need to call on him sometime. And when we collectively mourn for the loss of a fallen brother, I'd like to think my prayers ARE heard!

So, yes, I do believe my flying gives me an added level of spirituality...but I would venture to say that our atheist brothers might feel the very same way. Hang Gliding is THAT good! cheers' and God Bless- gary

ps- When I first read your post, I thought you meant 'Bay Area" pilots with the BA. ha! .... be careful- there is such a stigma with the 'born again' label.

[DanTuck]

I was born again on July 1, 2007. Since that day my perspective on life has changed profoundly. I am a new man with new priorities and a new best friend. Since that day, I've taken a big step back from the rat race and once again realized what follwing your dreams can bring you. July 1, 2007 was the day I went to my first HG lesson and the first day my feet left the ground. That's what you meant, right?
Edit: Just in case I left anyone wondering - I am NOT christian or a member of any other organized religion. No thank you. But if it floats your boat, enjoy.

[Jason]

when I was going thru religious indoctrination, and they asked us to confess our sins, i told the priest I was batman


I thought it was funny
they didn't

[ian9toes]

Count me in Tony I'm sure God was looking over me just the other day actually. I was settting up my glider when one of the nose wires came straight out of the down tube. I was like how, why, what.... Then I realized, oh that must have been when I put nice new straight down tubes on the glider, I mustn't have got the pin through the eyelet properly. Wait a second that was THREE flights ago That reminds me time I did some confessing, and posted a seperate thread, on that. Don't hijack this one people.
You know what though Tony, I have found the HG community to be more tight knit than my Austraila wide church group (The Revival Fellowship). After all there are several thousand people in my church, and only about ONE thousand Hangy's in Australia. Plus you can't always hold a conversation with someone just 'cause they go to the same church. But when you both fly HG, that's usually enough to hold a conversation.

[bsquare]

Yep - me too.

After a bit of substance abuse that came close to killing me, I found a new life in my personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I definately "get right" with God before every flight. In flight, I do enjoy fellowship with him, and I make sure to thank him for his creation that I get to enjoy from the clouds.

(I also pray for thermals)

[Lobido]

[Wagner24314]

pizza id go to that church

[skypilot155]

I was Born Again 19 years ago, since then my life has been wonderful and fulfilling, I'm ordained as a pastor and consider myself blessed beyond anything I could ever believe possible I have been married to the same woman (my first and only wife) for 29 years, I have 3 fantastic sons, who are all married and by the end of August I'll be a grand daddy times 5. I have a herds of toys On my first flight off Slide mountian 4 years ago I spent the first 10 minutes just praising God for the joy of flight, and I still do every flight. I am not ashamed of my relationship with Christ

I truely believe John 14:6 says it all

And Wagner we do serve Pizza at our Church,

[Love2Glide]

Not me. Lots of reasons. Maybe for discussion over a beer in the LZ.

After all, discussion about religion and politics always makes for friends!

[JohnG]

I know I don't have to read it and all, but really... do we really need this Jesus Christ crap on the front page of a hang gliding website? Jesus.

I guess we could argue about who is right and who is wrong. Or about who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. Or your thoughts about war and abortion. Or we could all post our own religious beliefs, and then compare. But for some crazy reason, this just doesn't feel like the right place to do that... hmmm.

I mean, I come to this website as an escape... God, take this thread away... please.

[ian9toes]

[FormerFF]

I don't think A J's idea was to talk about religion, he was just asking how many other pilots on this board were born again. I'm not at all religious, but I don't see a problem with him asking.

[WPuckett]

Not the typical topic I see here..... but just as valid since we share so many deep feelings with other pilots.... much like true brothers. If this topic bothers you, I suggest you click on the "HangGliding.Org" icon and go back to the index and roll the dice again.

There are 3 ways to look at it in my opinion; that are greatly influenced by my experience as a navy medical corpsman during Vietnam.

The total non-believers (Atheist) will scold those that they feel are weak enough to have or need, a belief in a greater power. In some ways they worry the least about life. They figure there's nothing after it.... so relax and have a good time while your here. They enjoy the feelings of flight for the sensory / exciting feelings it gives them and they strive for all they can. They struggle at the end to hold onto life at the end because its all they have....and when they go.... it's a sad end.

The middle of the road folks are not sure of what happens. Sometimes leaning toward a belief in God and especially when things get dicey they would like to think there is some help available.... but then they wonder why the horrible things like Vietnam happen ---- or allowed to happen. They figure if it's all true, then God has the power to stop it.... free choice is not always the most logical choice when you live in a horror movie for real. Somehow after wiping out a village of people...you almost have to wonder..... I knew lots of them during the war. I know one today (several during the war) that is tortured by his actions and knows he is going down when the end comes..... to pay for their (ordered) deeds against mankind. I feel saddest for them. Theirs is the most tortured death- no matter what anyone else says. Flying gives them a temporary reprieve from their feelings and brings a joy that makes living a pleasurable experience once again.... but it fades and seems temporary.

Then there's those that know there is something greater and rejoice in it. They keep their hearts open and mostly a smile on their face. Flying is the decoration on the icing that covers their cake / life and makes it even more beautiful. They take the occasion when reaching cloudbase to visit and talk to God because we are visiting a realm not normally meant for human experience. For we were taught that angels with wings are those sent to watch over us and as servants of God, have their origins in heaven. Where were you taught to look for heaven? UP !! As a child I always thought heaven WAS the CLOUDS ! In the concrete sequential development stages of life... you have to have something to see to be able to believe. Every time I have gone up to cloudbase on a hang glider it has triggered memories and feelings that something unique and to be cherished is happening. As Dan Fogelberg said "somewhere between real and make believe". Sometimes it is just hard to believe that we have these wonderful machines that allow us to counteract one of the fundamental forces of the universe. Sure its actually happening..... but until 30 years ago it was unknown to humans. I have done clouds by sailplane and it is a totally different experience... very mechanical. For the believers in God, it has been my experience that when the end comes it is much more easily accepted. Sometimes a little last minute realignment is necessary.... but it usually gets full attention at that time. I even had one patient that saw the angels coming to take him home and died happier than any person I've met in daily life. I must also report that chill came over me when he smiled and breathed his last....it was unique.
I got to the point to where I could feel the progress of death in my patients and I believe there is more to life than just biochemistry ( and I AM a chemist ). Is there a chance I could be wrong? Sure... as a scientist I have to say I could be full of bull.... but my heart and feelings say different.

Bottom line is, you believe what you believe and it influences your feeling throughout all of life and especially something as special as flying hang gliders. Hope to see you all at cloudbase soon !

[JohnG]

Personally, I don't buy any of your arguments. But I really don't care. I didn't come here to talk about religion or religious experiences. I didn't come here to be reminded that there are people who "are born again." I came here because I have a hang gliding addiction. And yes, the Skier's Unite thread doesn't belong on the front page either!

How about this... does this question and discussion belong in the "Learning to hang glide" section of the website? Or maybe a better place would be the campfire? Would anyone object to that change?

Ahh screw it. The campfire gets put on the front page too. There is no escaping it. It is hang gliding related, so I guess it belongs here.

[ian9toes]

[noman3]

ahh yes brothers let us use thy holy relics and dogma



Link

[noman3]

this is where most arguments about religion goes.



Link

[AP]

I love that video Noman3. Brilliant!
Thank you WPuckett for your insightful post. Several pearls there indeed.
I nearly drowned in the surf one day when I was 12yrs of age. During what I was certain were the final moments of my life I found myself calling out for help, from God!
Flying sounds like a religion for many of us: all pervading, constantly filling our minds with a magic that is bigger than the lot of us. Awe-inspiring. I can understand why the two could be very compatable, maybe even symbiotic.

[Astroboy2001]

As far as it's HG related, it belongs here.

It's good to see a variety of topics. I have barely got a taste of HG so far, but like others I know I will be addicted to it when I get that restricted license, hopefully in a couple of weeks, and like some others have said I've got no doubt it will be a new and fantastic way to enjoy God's creation and connect with him more.

I will be eternally grateful for the people surrounding me from an early age who showed me the way to the path of life. I have found from experience that true believers are not, as some think, people with a weakness who need something to cling on to, but rather are the ones who have found the true meaning and purpose of their life. Being of a scientific bent, my inclination when old enough to think critically was to question and investigate beliefs, rather than just accept them because people like my parents said they were true. What many people don't realise is that faith in Jesus Christ is not "blind" faith - it's based on actual historical events, the truth or otherwise of which can be investigated by analysis of historical accounts. Some would say that science precludes the events recorded in the Gospels in the New Testament being historical - people just can't come back from the dead (for instance), and fair enough I've never seen it happen myself. But if one is open-minded and assumes that current human knowledge doesn't necessarily explain all possible things, then I believe that if one does serious study on this topic then one will conclude that as incredible as it may seem, there was a man Jesus who claimed to be God himself, was executed by crucifixion and returned to life a couple of days later - real events in history. Anyway, sorry for what might seem a bit of a long rant, I just wanted to make the point that faith in Christ is not faith without reason. I cannot prove that it is true, just that it is a reasonable belief for a rational person to have.

I too was fascinated by WPuckett's post - in your occupation you would be in a fair position to comment on these things. AP interesting to hear about your surf experience too - I wonder does this point to some inbuilt tendency in humanity to try to connect with the creator, albeit often only triggered in desperate times?

I think have a fair idea of the reasons why this topic tends to attract flames from non-believers, and indeed at church tonight I heard that people who mock believers are actually fulfilling biblical prophecy themselves - it was predicted in the Bible that there would be mockers and scoffers. I don't mean to reply with any flames of my own. In order to maintain civility I don't normally bring these things up in this sort of forum just due to the passion it can arouse, but since this thread was up I thought it was an appropriate place to contribute in this way. I mean absolutely no offence to anyone - people should be able to disagree wholeheartedly and yet be best of friends. Having something in common, like Hang gliding, surely has to assist this.

I believe most of all that people must be free to follow whatever beliefs/worldviews that they choose. On a personal level, I do hope that more and more people find faith in Jesus Christ - not because I want people to agree with me - but simply so they can have the same tremendous benefits of it that I have. As others have said, no one has to read this. But thanks a j for starting it - you have tremendous courage to do so here.