That will reduce drag a lot. When you fly a paraglider, its incredible how windy it feels, and its a lot colder too. I never realized how effective being prone was in a pod. You are a giant drogue chute when you are upright in a pg.
He may be giving up his weight shifting ability though. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Last edited by sg on Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
I just can't get over those 'Lazyboy' harnesses. It looks like they should have a cup holder and remote control for the TV. I'm sure it is very comfortable. I just have difficulty seeing it as an extreme sport when you could fall asleep during it.
I know it is every bit as challenging as HG with the added bonus that your wing could fold up at any time. The harness just seems at odds with the sport.
I know it is every bit as challenging as HG with the added bonus that your wing could fold up at any time. The harness just seems at odds with the sport.
If a prone PG pilot suffers a collapse can they even see what's happening with the canopy? It's not so hard to see my wing, but it's only 4 feet above me. Make that 15 - 18 feet and I don't know. Prone PG flying may not be the best idea.
BTW - Today at our local launch near Hammondsport, NY a PG pilot suffered a collapse and had to deploy his reserve. Bob (SkyDog) Grant's wife Maureen caught the deployment on video.
Not one HG had turbulence related problems. The air seemed pretty nice to me. The PG pilot was an advanced pilot, also. And he came down fine with no injuries. But his reserve (not actual PG canopy) hung up in a tree, right next to some power lines, which he was drifting toward.
It seems on casual inpsection that PG pilots deploy their reserve on a much more regular basis than I like.
My very un-scientific review of available youtube videos seems to support that PG pilots use reserve chutes much more than HG pilots. Also, it seems HG accidents are usually identifiable errors by the pilot. PG accidents seem much less predictable.
The comment that the prone PG pilot might not be as able to see his wing is very well taken. I had not thought of that issue.
Maybe to see the canopy for the prone PG pilot:
1. Mirror
2. Cam to display
3. Cam to viewing goggles
4. Modified harness permitting pilot roll to view
???????????????
Ha, I believe that was cracky (Curt Warren). That guy's good fun.
I'll throw a few things out there for ya'll. Not in hopes of convincing anyone to fly PG (either you're interested or you think they're nuts... nothing's gonna change that). Just to balance some info for ya.
I find the head first comments kinda funny. I've found that to be the number one "you're nuts" comment from PG pilots about HG.... "you fly head first!"
Anyway. I treat PG collapses like HG stalls. They look scary, but they're not... unless you do them near the ground. Easiest way to stall a HG? -> fly too slow. Sit there on the edge of a stall and let the rough air do the rest. You don't do your base-to-final turn at min sink do you?
Best way to collapse a PG? -> fly too fast.... wait for the rough air to do the rest.
Stall... AOA too high
Collapse... AOA too low
Only ever touch PG in mellow air.... not. I fly PG every day with hangies all day in all sorts of stuff. It's only when you start getting into radical air that you need to switch. Some PGers still fly and wind up on youtube.
PG reserves.
PG reserves can be thrown without damaging the PG. The same can not be said for HG. So you're into a bit of apples and oranges. I see a couple deployments a year (I'm in a very heavily flown area). So far, they've all been due to failed aerobatics. (One was a swift that tore it's wings off in a loop)
In the end, make up your own mind as usual.
Just have good info to do it with.
Jim
But now I guess you get slammed head first into the ground during a collapse at launch.
Probably not. He lands on his feet, so I presume he launches that way as well. Just like we're upright when launching and landing our HGs. _________________ H4 + various skills (only foot-launch so far)
WW UltraSport 147, WW Falcon2 170, PacAir Vision Mark IV 17
My HG wiki profile and my flying blog
I never realized how effective being prone was in a pod. You are a giant drogue chute when you are upright in a pg.
The first time I went skiing, I decided to see how fast I could go. I crouched down real low and was hauling ass and then stood up without thinking about it. The drag from my body knocked me straight on my ass. Body = drag.
I never realized how effective being prone was in a pod. You are a giant drogue chute when you are upright in a pg.
The first time I went skiing, I decided to see how fast I could go. I crouched down real low and was hauling ass and then stood up without thinking about it. The drag from my body knocked me straight on my ass. Body = drag.
We call that a 'wind check'. I jumped the 90m nordic jump at Squaw valley on 235cm downhill alpine skis during a full moon in 1979, and I too got knocked on my ass.
It seems that most of the PG comp guys are flying with reclined Pods now, almost 'suprone'.
Seeing your wing (PG) is useful, but most pilots don't spend a bunch of time doing it. With practice, you learn to feel what the wing is doing without looking at it. Same for HG, except the PG wing is moving around more. _________________ 'Spark
H4/OBS - WW U2-160 & Falcon 2 195
P3, Skywalk Chili L
That's David Prentice. He launches, lands and thermals in a conventional seated position, and only flips into the prone position when he is gliding between thermals with plenty of altitude. He says that whenever a collapse occurs, it tends to rock him upright into the seated position.
It's an interesting harness. I saw it for the first time last year when we were in
Valle, flying off the new "Wall" launch. Dave's an awesome pilot and instructor.
So far as "butt first" flying goes, I have to say that it's far easier on my neck to
look around from an upright seated position, compared to scanning for
traffic from a face-down position. I just don't perceive the hang glider prone
position as having some extra aspect of "free flying", compared to the upright
seating on the PG. The subtle textures of the air are, if anything, easier to sense
on the PG, and both are far more "in touch" than the trike, which is in turn much
more sensitive than the Cessna. And then there's commercial jets....
It's all flying, and it's all good. As for PG deflations, that's not something you
really "look" at apart from a quick glance to check. You feel it, and correct
the problem more by feel than by sight. If you're doing a proper job of active
flying, you don't have those deflations to start with (mostly) because you're
feeling the pressure in the brake line and keeping the wing at a positive angle
of attack by adjusting brake position constantly. It's only when you try to make
the wing fly at a negative AoA that you get a frontal deflation, and a quick stab
on the brake brings it back to positive AoA again.
Flying too slowly, deep in the brakes is a bigger hazard, because you need to
burn altitude to recover airspeed, and a full stall takes quite a bit of altitude
for a recovery. (Just like hang gliders.) Frontal deflations while flying fast are
mostly a non-event, since they bang out almost instantly and you have lots
of airspeed you can use to pop them open.
hey group....I've been lurking for a while now (34 yrs!) and figured I'd try a comment on the "prone" PG harness. 15 or so years ago I remember suggesting at least a supine/suprone flying style to the relatively new PG guys starting to show up at our local HG sites and getting a fair amount of flack....ANYway, I'm guessing that in competition the pilots using this seated/prone harness idea are going to start smoking the other PG racers and we'll see another mind set once again....Happy New Year, John S.
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