After a long break from flying, I've gotten back into it remembering the things I was taught years ago by my old man and other locals. I don't remember being taught the legs crossed bit. The guys I'm flying with now make a big deal about it. I'm not even convinced it is that neccessary. Couldn't find it in my Dennis Pagen book. I'm kinda thinking with legs uncrossed if you cop a big hit and say your right wing comes up, you can get your right leg further out to correct it. Everyone says make use of the pendulum effect but I don't see how uncrossed legs aren't 2 seperate pendulums with the same benifit. Maybe I should just tell 'em to bugger off and let me fly the way I want to But then again I appreciate a little critique, then at the end of the day I have to way it all up and draw my own conclusions, or create a poll and see If I'm all alone _________________ C4 13, KTM 300 2-stroke.
To me it is simple physics. You have your legs uncrossed at the ankles and you get hit with turbulence and get thrown around, you may move your upper body to the side but it will be counterbalanced by the leg that stays where it is.
With your ankles crossed you move your body to the side both your legs are more likely to follow your upper body. All you have to do is watch some video of people coming into land with uncrossed legs, when they get hit by turbulence their legs spread wide and hence one leg puts weight to one side which is counterbalanced by the other one hence there is no weight shift to control the glider.
Now if you are conscious enough to hold you legs straight and together you may get away with it, but most pilots I know are not thinking about their legs when get hit by turbulence on landing, the normal response is SH#%@#T. _________________ Sonic 165
Lightsport 3
Malibu 188
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Each of your legs is about 1/4 of your body weight. That's a lot of mass that be used effectively together or act against you if they are flailing around separately.
if you guys keep your legs crossed and your gliders out of the bushes at mcclure on a hot summer day i will give you 20 bucks.Keeping your legs un crossed gives you more authority
After a long break from flying, I've gotten back into it remembering the things I was taught years ago by my old man and other locals. I don't remember being taught the legs crossed bit. The guys I'm flying with now make a big deal about it. I'm not even convinced it is that neccessary. Couldn't find it in my Dennis Pagen book. I'm kinda thinking with legs uncrossed if you cop a big hit and say your right wing comes up, you can get your right leg further out to correct it. Everyone says make use of the pendulum effect but I don't see how uncrossed legs aren't 2 seperate pendulums with the same benifit. Maybe I should just tell 'em to bugger off and let me fly the way I want to But then again I appreciate a little critique, then at the end of the day I have to way it all up and draw my own conclusions, or create a poll and see If I'm all alone
stick to your guns,legs un crossed but not spread out will give you more authority ,on your glider.You can get the outer leg out further and the inner leg as far over as you can,this is simple physics guys.
I love you Noman Yesterday I copped a bit of flack from one of the local instructors telling me I need to polish my technique and that I'd look like a proper flyer coming in with my legs crossed almost as though it's some kind of asthetic thing. I'd been told to do it before, but I still don't and they're not letting up on it . I tried it for a bit on the ridge but I didn't care for it much. That vid just confirmed what I had thought, the whole body is still penduluming fine with the added benefit of the outside leg going further out adding to that pendulum effect. I think when that outside legs goes out further others see this as the legs flailing around, I see something else. Legs UNcrossed _________________ C4 13, KTM 300 2-stroke.
we get those cross your legs guys here sometimes and its fun to watch them land here,in the summer.The cross your legs guys typically come from the coast.No offense to you coastal guys.Turbulence is a fickle whore!!!.cheers ian9toes.
By crossing them, your legs form a sort of triangle and dont flial around as much.
But you can use your leg muscles to hold them in a position rather than bracing them by crossing them across each other, both have their merits IMO. _________________ H4, Litespeed 4 w/ Mylar sail.
Previous: Airwave K2, Wills Wing Eagle 145
For those that remember the old Utah list, Noman is to the .org as Kevin Frost was to that list. -- small world syndrome.
It's a big world Noman -- there happens to be turbulance at sites other than McClure and some of the best pilots I've ever known could likely make you look like a chump landing wise -- and do it with their legs crossed until the last moment.
From a physics standpoint you'll have a hard time proving your "leg's uncrossed provides more authority" position. In fact, I present that you will never prove it.
If you are rocked upright on set up then you should cross your legs.
The way the poll is set up I won't vote because my legs don't come out of the harness until I'm in ground effect. Pretty tough to cross your legs in your harness. _________________ -Jason
WW Sport2 155
rated?, we don't need no stinking ratings!!
For those that remember the old Utah list, Noman is to the .org as Kevin Frost was to that list. -- small world syndrome.
It's a big world Noman -- there happens to be turbulance at sites other than McClure and some of the best pilots I've ever known could likely make you look like a chump landing wise -- and do it with their legs crossed until the last moment.
From a physics standpoint you'll have a hard time proving your "leg's uncrossed provides more authority" position. In fact, I present that you will never prove it.
JB
oh no the physics fly is buzzing around(jb)Trying to explain how your wrong on the computer is like pulling teeth bubbs.I will wager that i can get more weight to the side with uncrossed legs.Where do we meet so i can collect my money.I will wager 100 dollars on this,you say where and when bubbs.
come on out and fly mcclure in the summer,bubbs.You can throw a big world clinic and show us your superior way of doing things.Can you post some more video,that video of you making all the right decisions and eating shiitt is getting old.lmao.
I usually don't get my legs out of the harness until my final, and when I do I generally cross them, however when I transition to the down-tubes, I uncross them and swing my legs to the side to counter balance the fact that I'm holding the control frame with one hand on the down tube, and none on the base bar. I dont do this when I move my first hand to the down tubes, but when one hand is up, one down and you try to get that last hand on the down tube, it can be a challenge to keep the wings level. Think about it, you are going fast, pulled in for speed, have no hands on the base bar and only one hand on the down tube. Swinging my legs out helps to counter balance that for a second. Once both hands are on the down tubes, I go back to crossing my legs.
Honestly, I don't know that crossing the legs helps. I do it out of habit. I am guessing instructors tell students to do it because it makes them aware of their legs and what their legs are doing. Othewise a new pilot could have their legs swinging all over the place beneath them without even really realizing it. Before you say that's rediculous, I've seen it happen many times.
I'm no physics guy but if you think about it, couldn't you swing your legs out faster and farther if they weren't crossed? Having them crossed kind of locks them inline with your spine. Granted, you can still swing your body, but you are swinging your entire body in a line wich is going to be slower then just say, swinging your legs. Imagine hanging from your hands on a pull-up bar. Swing your legs from side to side. Now cross them and try swinging them. You can do it but it's slower, harder, and probably can't get them over as far. Or am I wrong? When I take my dog for a walk today, I'll swing by the jungle gym and give it a try!
This is a great thread and I'm very interested to see what the veterans think about this.
Crossed until the end, ESPECIALLY in strong turbulence.
Here is the reason.
It may seem like you can get your weight further to the side with your legs uncrossed, but under what conditions????
When im REALLY getting whacked with the strongest turbulence on approach, there is NO WAY I can over come the forces being applied to me with my legs un-crossed. They get split apart and thrown around by the G-forces and my body is no where near strong enough to keep them together, and swinging in the direction I want.
When its smooth, sure, I can swing both of my legs further to the side in parallel. But who cares about smooth!
When its rough, I can lock my ankles, and when I get rocked hard, and really need to shift my weight to one side, my CG is focused together as one unit below me and I can still move my hips and legs attached over to one side. Otherwise, I would have ended up with my upper body going one way, and my legs flailing in the other direction (the direction the turbulence threw me in), which is the equivalent of CG-cross-controlling.
The wing doesnt know if you have your legs crossed or uncrossed. But with my legs crossed, I can weight shift effectively with my hips without "leaving my legs behind" because of strong turbulence.
Imagine attaching a 50lb weight to each foot and trying to land in strong turbulence. You would be a RAG doll, with your legs going all over the place with you having little control to get the weight to the side you really want to.
Now imagine attaching those two 50lb weights to your hips. Not a big deal. You will still be able to effectively weight shift.
Now remove those two 50 lb weights and you just have a lighter version of the above scenario.
Therefore: Ankles locked all the way for the best control authority when in strong turbulence, IMO.
Try it for a season and see. _________________
H4, AT, FL, TFL, AWCL, CL, FSL, RLF, TUR, X-C
Aeros Stealth III 142
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
you got to remember that your hang point is not your only hang point,the control bar distributes weight on the cg.When your pushing your legs to 1 side,how are you doing this?.Your using the control bar to push and pull on, to move your weight around.When doing this your adding weight to 1 side of the control bar and decreasing weight on the other side.This is what bubbs missed on this 1,You have to remember pretty(good form) is not always right.Im not saying you guys that cross your legs are right or wrong,im just saying it limits your control in turbulence.I wager if anybody comes out and flys on a hot summer day near the mountain that your legs will come uncrossed.
I fly in the mountains on hot summer days. I fly at Slide. Anyone that flys here is very familiar with turbulent conditions. I have no problems keeping my ankles crossed in rough air, it takes very little effort. The whole point is to keep your legs from flailing around independently when you are getting hammered. The Slide LZ is a great place to be entertained by watching approaches and landings and the leg flailing, barely in control scenario is a common one. The pilots flying that way may feel like they have more control, but it sure doesn't seem to be the case.
i'm with you on the point you are making noman. But mabey it's because from what I have seen from most pilots that come in @ McClure is this, the ones who don't cross thier legs are most, and the pilots who cross thier legs as they approach, almost always have to uncross. So honestly it is not too often I see people complete thier approach with the crossage. especially in the summer. That is just what I have seen. _________________ Always a student.
"The mountain doesn't care what that card in your wallet says." - Bruce Stobbe
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But then again I appreciate a little critique, then at the end of the day I have to way it all up and draw my own conclusions, or create a poll and see If I'm all alone 
Yesterday I copped a bit of flack from one of the local instructors telling me I need to polish my technique and that I'd look like a proper flyer coming in with my legs crossed almost as though it's some kind of asthetic thing. I'd been told to do it before, but I still don't and they're not letting up on it 
. I tried it for a bit on the ridge but I didn't care for it much. That vid just confirmed what I had thought, the whole body is still penduluming fine with the added benefit of the outside leg going further out adding to that pendulum effect. I think when that outside legs goes out further others see this as the legs flailing around, I see something else. Legs UNcrossed 
